XX Alliances and Items

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  • #78669

    Shinai
    Keymaster
      @dagger

      OOG Note : The “XX” Icon designates that all posts/responses within this thread are visible only to non-retired PC Characters.

      An agreement was made with the Herald known as Bard last night that everyone in town should be made aware of.  He showed up as we were finishing up with our adventure and had some time sensitive information for us that came at the cost of an allegiance with the three Heralds – Bard, Maker, and Magus – which, after we found out what the information was, the reasoning for the need of an alliance was made obvious.

      To get to the points, first on the cost:

      •  Those of us there last night agreed to treat the three Heralds as guests when they are around
        • This includes defending them from physical attack from enemies and even other town members if it comes down to it
      • It was extremely important that this alliance was made before the information was given to us as giving us the information put a target on the three Heralds’ backs
      • There were 13 active adventurers  from Northwatch , who show up regularly, present this night.  Everyone present agreed to the alliance on an individual level (placed their vote in favor).  Looking through my records, the largest group of active Northwatch adventurers who show up with some regularity since I’ve been around is only 25 people strong, meaning that even if we had the most people we have had on an adventure present it would have still been a majority vote to accept the alliance.
        • 2 of these 13 people were town officials, specifically the Sheriff and Mage’s guild leader
        • We wanted to have a conversation/vote on the boards but Bard stressed the information was too time sensitive to wait even that long
        • I think it might not be a bad idea for those who were not present to say their yay or nay here, just to get more of the town included in a vote, even if it is just a formality as we can’t change what was agreed to.
          • If people wish to post yay or nay as a reply to this post I will keep track of the numbers.  I have a list of who was there last night so votes will be counted once.

      As to the information gained:

      • There is a runic artifact in a vault in the Flying Castle called the Wand of the Spell Weaver (might have been Rune Weaver, I was writing notes really quickly at this point and might have mixed words, if anyone else remember clearly what it was called please let me know)
        • A Ritual caster could use it to cast rituals that would normally fail, and cast rituals with more speed
          • This includes the ritual that would repair Nos Talanos’ mind
        • This wand has a destiny that even a legend lore won’t reveal
        • Tal Sigor wants this, badly
          • Reason the heralds now have a target painted on their back for telling us this
          • There are others of power who want this, so please, please, keep this information close
        • The vault the wand is in requires a series of powerful runes
          • Magus is working on figuring these out for us as part of the deal, or as a bonus to the alliance.

      -Zyra Goldenmane

       

      #78673

      Chelsea
      Participant
        @chelsea

        The terms are fair and the information is valuable and it also seems to not interfere with our other goals in going to the Castle.

        I would’ve voted yes had I been there last night.

        Sibella

        IG: Sibella R.E. Listrotov
        OOG: Chelsea Baldwin

        #78686

        Patrick
        Participant
          @gray

          Thank you for the report Zyra. Your notes are once again a great boon.

          I’m also comfortable with this alliance, and will gladly support it.

          -Gray

          #78688

          Steve
          Participant
            @steve

            While I am not around often, I have talked with people about these Heralds pretty regularly and want to clarify a couple of things.

            1 – Is attacking them when they show up normal?

            2 – How did this Bard guy know what we were looking for?

            3 – Treating them as guests can mean a lot of different things. So can us protecting them while they are in town. What are the specific conditions set?

            Leorrin

            #78689

            Shinai
            Keymaster
              @dagger

              Leorrin,

              1. I’ve never seen them attacked or had any reason to do so, however, they seemed legitimately worried that someone in town might attack them, so I am assuming it has happened in the past for some reason.
              2. Bard had made a deal with someone in the town to collect information on the Flying Castle, he also was around when the ritual to repaire Nos Talanos’ mind was performed.  From what he said he has also chosen to be on our side against Tal Sigor in this fight.
              3. The specific conditions are a little vague, being just that we were to treat them as we would a welcome guest in town.  There were few clarifiers for this, basically just that we wouldn’t attack them and we would defend them as we would defend an ally who was visiting, so like how we would treat Daryoon, or Geo, or Sprocket, or a merchant we had invited to visit.  For the most part it sounded like they just want to be able to hide in town safely if Tal Sigor’s forces come after them for giving us information on an this artifact.

              I hope you find these answers satisfactory.

              -Zyra Goldenmane

              • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Shinai.
              #78691

              Steve
              Participant
                @steve

                So,

                He came to you with a deal that had to be agreed to without providing any time for collecting information or talking to people.

                So we couldn’t take the time to validate what he was saying. Or even ask Avric about what he needs (who would have just provided the information to us).

                And to ‘sweeten’ the pot, he said that water is wet. Sorry, I mean he said that a ritual caster wants an item that makes ritual casting more potent. Cause its not not like every ritual caster ever would want that.

                The cost of said information, is that we don’t attack him (something we haven’t done in the past) and defend him if he comes to town. Since it hasn’t been an issue in the past, why is it an issue now?

                Is it so he can go picking fights, and then run to us for help? Or he can make deals with people that we would be against, and we can’t do anything about it? Or the heralds can advance whatever agenda their master has and we won’t interfere? Because primordials have totally proven to be allies, and dealing with the heralds has never turned sour.

                And the herald Bard, who shares and provides information is a trustworthy source who we should share our secrets with, because he would never reveal them to someone? Not even if it would advance his master’s agenda? Which none of us fully know or understand, because, ya know, primordials.

                So Tal Sigor is an ancient arch lich that knows things. Knows things that Magus, Maker and Bard would probably love to know (things magical, things artifice and things of lore and legend). So if he asked them to trade information, they would say no, right? Even if it would advance their masters agenda (again, an agenda we don’t know). Was that part of the deal?

                Also, as an aside, I have a bridge to sell the town.

                Leorrin

                #78695

                Chelsea
                Participant
                  @chelsea

                  With Bard in particular; I am aware of one physical altercation with the town. Those town members are no longer residing in Northwatch; so Bard requesting that history does not repeat itself does make sense to an extent.

                  To my knowledge I’m not aware of any physical altercations with Magus or Maker.

                  Zyra, are you aware of a timeline to this alliance? I don’t want to keep fighting their battles 10 years from now because they keep referring to this situation.

                  Sibella

                  • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Chelsea.

                  IG: Sibella R.E. Listrotov
                  OOG: Chelsea Baldwin

                  #78698

                  Travis Emery
                  Participant
                    @krow

                    Leorrin,

                    Yes, all three have found themselves at the end of a northwatch adventurers sword at least once in the past due to disagreements or even hatred.

                    Bard came to us to ask if we would provide him and his brothers aid in the future for them deciding to take sides in this matter even when herald’s often do not.

                    Even as they are, they are not impervious to being destroyed, and tal sigor would find them more a nuisance then an aid, and if left to his power, could kill them, especially since it was not their master we granted ability to ascend.

                    In exchange for the adventurers of northwatch, not falconcrest, word to keep them safe, they will provide us with information and assistance to help nos talanos.

                    He came to us willingly and was eager to have us accept terms before hand, yes, but i believe it to be out of self preservation. He needed to know where they’d be safe.
                    Even if avric had the info bard brought to us, he hasn’t, and seeing as how we could be heading there in only a couple weeks, any kind of direction or info was nice as none other has been given to us, willingly or bargained for.

                    As sibella stated, those who had transgressions with them before are no longer in town, and this agreement has the backing of 5 town officials.
                    If you, or anyone else for that matter, would like to make an argument against, we’d be all ears.

                    If bard, maker, or magus were to help tal sigor, his minions, or posed a direct threat to the town, they would be in breach of this agreement and we would no longer be their allies.

                    The duration of this was bard exclaiming “as long as it takes”, which I’ll take as him leaving to us how long we want. Until nos talanos is awake? Until tal sigor is dead? This is open for disscussion I think.

                    Of course this is all mostly just my opinion, but right now we should probably be welcoming allies in this, not just questioning their motives.
                    The entire world knows who and what northwatch is, and to proclaim desires of an alliance only to stab us in the back would not turn out so well, as they know, just ask gabe, or the starfall, or any number who have tried and failed.

                    — Krow

                    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Travis Emery.

                    "You know nothing of passion. When your rage can sunder mountains, you may speak to me of passion."
                    -- Krowthus Quince of the Clan of the Bear, summer 215

                    #78700

                    Steve
                    Participant
                      @steve

                      If the people who they took issue with are gone, why do they need protection? They are supernatural creatures, not people. Stabbing them doesn’t work or they apparently wouldn’t be around.

                      You only ask for something you don’t need now if it is something you are going to need in the future. It seems like there aren’t terms to this deal because no one bothered to make any before saying they would bind the whole of Northwatch to it.

                      Also, why did people decide to stab them?

                      Do I object? Of course I object. They are supernatural entities that we don’t understand and hope aren’t going to screw us over. We don’t have the ability to harm them, as we have tried and failed. We also have no idea what they are capable of other than what they have chosen to show us.

                      No one in Northwatch speaks for me but me. We are a band of adventures that choose to live in the same place with loose affiliations. Next time someone says all of Northwatch has to be bound by an agreement, tell them they don’t know how adventuring towns work and that isn’t an option. They will have to make their case to everyone.

                      Maybe I’m wrong and everything will be peachy keen. I hope I am. But no one who makes a deal like that is worrying about any interests other then their own.

                      Leorrin

                      • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Steve.
                      • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Steve.
                      #78703

                      Travis Emery
                      Participant
                        @krow

                        You seem to assume pretty quick that these were things that weren’t discussed.
                        Our first and immediate reaction was to talk to the whole town, hence why zyra posted anything to begin with.

                        Time is a small commodity these days unfortunately, so those who do not travel with us often are also often excluded from decisions that had to be made in haste. No one is denying that, but everyone is always given a voice in the end, as you put, no one speaks for you but you.
                        Those of us who were actually there were unanimous in the agreement, but also said we would bring it to everyone else and hope they see the advantages.

                        I do believe Sibella addressed your question. They have been attacked in town before and do not wish it to happen again, as well, if tal sigor finds out that they have allied against him, he will likely send forces against them.
                        If they could not be harmed, if they couldn’t be displaced or batered, why ask for protection. Maybe they are becoming weaker, or maybe tal sigor knows something that even they do not that threatens their life as much as ours.
                        As to why those in town took arms against them, you’d have to ask them, they acted individually when they did so.

                        Why help a supernatural creature? They are all singularly more powerful then any of us. Bard, Maker, Magus, Avric, Imogen, Nos Talanos, Rhome, Rezport, Thalomere, Daryoon, shall I continue?
                        It is better to help them and make friends with them then stand against them and have every day of our lives consumed by wondering if today will be the day they all decide we’re all just not worth it any more.

                        As a town, if we could just stand together and not squabble over the pickings of monsterous corpses or long dead treasures, we could become so much more then each of us provide to the next.

                        So yes, everyone has their own voice, and they are heard, but everyone needs to understand that what we do as a whole, as Northwatch, effects not only us, but all of Cyrillia and has changed the course of history and destiny alike.
                        If you would like to be a part of that then please speak your piece, only by staying quite do you hurt what we aim to accomplish.

                        However, when you do speak, speak to the why. Do not just disagree for the sake of disagreement. Do not sow doubt in those who already choose to stand simply because you want some to sit. And do not make the assumtion that anything decided was without each and every one of us being taken into consideration even when you are not able to voice the words yourself.

                        — Krow

                        • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Travis Emery.

                        "You know nothing of passion. When your rage can sunder mountains, you may speak to me of passion."
                        -- Krowthus Quince of the Clan of the Bear, summer 215

                        #78705

                        ReginaldorSquire
                        Participant
                          @reginaldorsquire

                          Leorrin,

                          They were asking for protection concerning Tal Sigor and his followers. By keeping our secrets and giving us more information they are chosing the side against him rather than for him. In reality they took a very strong side against by their actions.

                          They have been helpful to the town in the past, and I understand your worry about them being powerful entities wanting more but we were not in a position to pander and then hopefully get buy in from everyone in town. The time when the castle gets here could be tomorrow and we had more people there that night than probably will see this post.

                          We all personally committed to this, but you swore no oath. If any who were not there wish to attack any of those entities that is with in your right as a non enslaved being. However I and Krow with both consider it deadly assualt and you will be halted, charged, brought before a Magistrate, and penalized.

                          We have many visitors to our town of much more questionable origin and we treat them with at the very least neutrality with concern to our weapons. We have been asked to treat them with the same level and protection as a friendly merchant who has come to visit the town. Keep them safe as you would any ally to the town.

                          This 100% is unfortunately how adventuring towns and towns in general sometimes work. When people are not there they end up dealing with the consequences of their fellow adventurers or town members both good and bad.

                          Anyone who disagrees with this choice, the next time an opening in a town position appears I look forward to your application.

                          Sincerely
                          Wizard Reginald Manyhome
                          Sage of Northwatch

                          #78706

                          Shinai
                          Keymaster
                            @dagger

                            Leorrin,
                            Your vote of “nay” has been recorded.

                            Sibella, Krow, Wizard Reginald Manyhome,
                            Thank you for your clarifications.

                            Vote is now 15 for and 1 against this alliance, in case anyone wanted the updated numbers.

                            -Zyra Goldenmane

                            #78707

                            ReginaldorSquire
                            Participant
                              @reginaldorsquire

                              Thank you for the total zyra.

                              #78709

                              Steve
                              Participant
                                @steve

                                Which of my questions have been answered? Zyra herself said:

                                The specific conditions are a little vague, being just that we were to treat them as we would a welcome guest in town. There were few clarifiers for this, basically just that we wouldn’t attack them and we would defend them as we would defend an ally who was visiting.

                                And Sibella said:

                                Those town members are no longer residing in Northwatch; so Bard requesting that history does not repeat itself does make sense to an extent.

                                Which leads to my unanswered question, what is he going to do that makes him afraid we will attack him.

                                Which led to my second unanswered question, what did he do to provoke who attacked him.

                                Which leads to my third question, why are you making assumptions on their behalf for their benefit?

                                My whole argument is we don’t know enough to pretend to be comfortable with this arrangement and your response is to list a number of ‘maybe they are…’ scenarios in their defense.

                                It is not better to make friends with people or entities or things that want to use us without us knowing how or why. It is not better to make friends if their goals hurts our goals.

                                I get that he said time of of the essence, what I am saying is that it seems there was nothing but his word that this was true.

                                I get that people feel rushed sometimes, but has anyone done anything, gone out of their way at all to ask anyone who has proven a trustworthy friend? If this is so important, was it not worth the prismatic dust to send a missive to someone?

                                If it was so important to Bard, why did the decision have to be made then and there. Why did it have to be rushed? What was the difference between that night and any other?

                                He’s afraid of Tal Sigor? So is the rest of the world. What makes him any more of a target than Avric, Imogen, Nos Talanos, Rhome, Rezport, Thalomere, Daryoon, King Gilrandir, Lord Venai, or any of the people who fought him and beat him previously?

                                Sure, I don’t have all the details, but form the ones I have been provided it seems pretty clear we got the short end of this deal.

                                Leorrin

                                #78711

                                Shinai
                                Keymaster
                                  @dagger

                                  Leorrin,

                                  “Which leads to my unanswered question, what is he going to do that makes him afraid we will attack him.”

                                  -Leorrin

                                  Sibella, Krow, we need to know what happened to make members of the town previously attack him to answer this question.  To me it sounds like it has something to do with a beef one, or a small group of, town member(s), who is/are no longer are around, had with the heralds.  This is based on Sibella’s and Krow’s posts and the fact that I haven’t heard anything about Bard, Maker, or Magus attacking the town.  The three times I’ve met Bard he has been cordial, helpful, and willing to negotiate deals.

                                  “With Bard in particular; I am aware of one physical altercation with the town. Those town members are no longer residing in Northwatch; so Bard requesting that history does not repeat itself does make sense to an extent.”

                                  -Sibella

                                   

                                  “As sibella stated, those who had transgressions with them before are no longer in town”

                                  -Krow

                                   

                                  “Which led to my second unanswered question, what did he do to provoke who attacked him.”

                                  -Leorrin

                                  Sibella, Krow, can one of you answer this one as you two seem to know who attacked and so probably the why?  To reiterate, personally every time I have met one of these three heralds they have been cordial, helpful, and willing to negotiate deals.

                                  “Which leads to my third question, why are you making assumptions on their behalf for their benefit?”

                                  -Leorrin

                                  I’m not sure what assumptions you are talking about, everything seems to be based in evidence or experience, or from what someone said so far.  Educated guesses are not a bad thing, learn to connect the dots.

                                  “I get that he said time of of the essence, what I am saying is that it seems there was nothing but his word that this was true.
                                  I get that people feel rushed sometimes, but has anyone done anything, gone out of their way at all to ask anyone who has proven a trustworthy friend? If this is so important, was it not worth the prismatic dust to send a missive to someone?”

                                  -Leorrin

                                  Reginald seemed to feel time was of the essence as well.  My educated guess in this case would be that we didn’t need to burn a prismatic dust to message someone about the fact that the time to visit the castle was indeed fast approaching.  Also, if I recall correctly, several other people there, although I didn’t list names in my notes they were adventurers of Northwatch, also agreed that, oh yeah, the flying castle had been seen.

                                  “If it was so important to Bard, why did the decision have to be made then and there. Why did it have to be rushed? What was the difference between that night and any other?”

                                  -Leorrin

                                  He needed us to decide to ally with him before getting the information as his giving the information made him a more direct target of Tal Sigor, and we needed the information as soon as possible as we don’t know when we will be visiting the castle except that it will be soon.  For all we know it could show up tomorrow.

                                  “They were asking for protection concerning Tal Sigor and his followers. By keeping our secrets and giving us more information they are chosing the side against him rather than for him. In reality they took a very strong side against by their actions.”

                                  -Wizard Reginald Manyhome
                                  –Sage of Northwatch

                                   

                                  “He’s afraid of Tal Sigor? So is the rest of the world. What makes him any more of a target than Avric, Imogen, Nos Talanos, Rhome, Rezport, Thalomere, Daryoon, King Gilrandir, Lord Venai, or any of the people who fought him and beat him previously?”

                                  -Leorrin

                                   

                                  • “Tal Sigor wants this [being the wand], badly
                                  • [The] Reason the heralds now have a target painted on their back is for telling us this”

                                  -Zyra Goldenmane (in my initial post)

                                  Now answer some questions for me:

                                  Who are you?  What authority do you have? And why should I trust you/treat you like an “ally” or a guest on an adventure, or in town?  If you are to be around why should I warn you of danger approaching, bring you up if you are bleeding on the ground, heal you, fight monsters with you?  I’ve barely met you, all I know about you is your name, that you are rude (you called half the town gullible, hence I feel you are rude), you sell armor, and a vague description I took note of the one time I saw you in person.

                                  Basically all that was agreed upon when those of us that were there agreed to ally ourselves with Bard, and the other two heralds he calls brothers, is to treat him as a non hostile force but rather a guest in town, which is how we tend to treat other adventurers.  And honestly, if he tries to stab us in the back, we’ll stab right back because he would have been the one to break the alliance.  So why shouldn’t we treat him this way?   Sure he is a powerful being, but so are several members of our town. Why should I treat you this way?  Bard has been more helpful and courteous than you have.  Do you have some personal grudge against Bard, because that is what it is starting to sound like?  Your arguments that allying with Bard was a bad decision can be turned against allying with you even easier as at least he is polite.

                                  Your vote of “nay” has been counted.  If the intent of your continuing to ask these question is just an attempt to cause strife within town, if you are just trying to make those of us who made a deal with a herald look dumb or gullible, if you are just trying to cause problems, SHUT UP ALREADY, we have enough problems without infighting. I will always endorse asking questions and sharing information, but many of your questions have been answered and you seem to be questioning these answers, or ignoring them, or refusing to be smart and connect dots.  If that is not your intention read the posts more thoroughly and learn to post with more eloquence.

                                  -Zyra Goldenmane

                                  • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Shinai.
                                  • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Shinai.
                                  #78719

                                  Steve
                                  Participant
                                    @steve

                                    Reginald,

                                    I was writing my last post at the same time you posted. I got sidetracked a couple times so it went up after yours and I didn’t get a chance to read it. Thank you for clarifying that it isn’t

                                    defending them from physical attack from enemies and even other town members if it comes down to it

                                    As was previously stated, but just not attacking them without them deserving it.

                                    Zyra,

                                    My goal isn’t to cause strife. We are allowed to disagree and call decisions made on behalf of the town into question. As you have shown, not all of my questions have been answered, and as Reginald’s and your own words show, it seems not all of the details have been accurately provided.

                                    Please take a step back, and look at this objectively. Questions are not an attack. If people don’t have answers to my questions, you can just say (like Krow did) you don’t have details and you think it is open to discussion. Or that it wasn’t discussed.

                                    The replies people have given may make sense to someone who was there, but to someone who was not (me) they aren’t answers at all. For example, when Reginald says

                                    “The time when the castle gets here could be tomorrow and we had more people there that night than probably will see this post.”

                                    Does that mean if you didn’t agree immediately Bard would take the deal to Tal Sigor? Does it mean he would have left and we had no other ways to get information? Does it mean all of the details of the deal are up for debate and to be decided at a later point? Does it mean that Bard gets to decide what it means? Or does it mean we don’t know when the castle will show up, and that statement is independent of anything else?

                                    I don’t have a grudge against Bard, but I know what he is. He and his ‘brothers’ showed no fear at fighting the Pale Ones and their forces directly. Are they less scary than Tal Sigor?

                                    My issue is that his motives, as he provides them, don’t add up. This bothers me because I see it as a potential threat to Northwatch. All of combat prowess I have gained, all of the expertise at crafting I have learned has been in order to protect Northwath. Not for my own personal aggrandizement.

                                    Like I said before, I hope I’m wrong.

                                    Leorrin

                                    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Steve.
                                    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Steve.
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